Biden Ukraine Fiasco [Politics]

"ZHP Sparky, the 5th" (e30s2k) 09/25/2019 at 11:21 • Filed to: None

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Given that this story has already been warped and has a life of its own…and will only get twisted that much more with impeachment inquiries and whatnot, this is a good summary of the actual history. Thought it would be interesting reading for those of you who care to keep up to date on these things -

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Wouldn’t you believe it…what Trump is accusing Biden of, is literally the reverse of what Biden (and many other world leaders) were pressuring Ukraine for in the first place .

Nibby > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 11:34

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bidens full of women

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Nibby 09/25/2019 at 11:47

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are they deplorable too?! 

vondon302 > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 11:48

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https://www.euronews.com/2019/09/22/trump-claims-no-quid-pro-quo-when-he-discussed-biden-n1057376

This lays down a nice timeline of events too.

Hope this works but I have my doubts. T he Dems had to do something about a lawless Presidency tho. Now time to see how many Senators love their country more than their party.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 11:51

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I actually am saddened by this whole thing. I was hoping that the impeachment would be something more Trumpy. Pee tape or trump being a long term KGB plant to destable america.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 09/25/2019 at 11:55

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Haha…or at least him offering “stay 2 nights at a Trump resort and get a round of golf for free* !” coupons to foreign leaders.

*balls cost extra

WiscoProud > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 09/25/2019 at 11:58

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I mean, extorting another country to influence our elections is very on-brand for him

Spanfeller is a twat > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 09/25/2019 at 12:09

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Forging a NOAA report is a federal crime; my ver was on that

nermal > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 12:15

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First thing that came to mind:

Even if the worst story conjured up by nutjobs on either side is true about the other, it still shows Trump > Biden. Also, Trumps k ids > Biden’s kids.  

Meanwhile, Warren is sitting on the sidelines quietly watching her poll #s rise. I betcha she’s behind the whistleblower somehow.

Nick Has an Exocet > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 12:17

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Putting political lines aside, I find it interesting how shrodingers cat this story is. On one hand, a president can’t use his powers to investigate  the son of a political opponent. On the other, the president is responsible for the diplomatic integrity of the nation. The Bidens should have excused themselves from this long ago as its not hard to see how it could look bad.

HammerheadFistpunch > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 12:23

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This cracks me up

“On Friday, the Times published a second front-page story on the anti-Biden conspiracy theory, reporting that Giuliani “plans to travel to Kiev, the Ukrainian capital, in the coming days and wants to meet with the nation’s president-elect to urge him to pursue inquiries” into the gas company that employed Hunter Biden and allegations that an independent anti-corruption bureau there “meddled” in the U.S. election in the summer of 2016 by releasing evidence of secret payments toPaul Manafort, Trump’s campaign chair at the time.”

We want answers as to why your government meddled in our elections by supplying evidence that our campaign chair was taking illegal money from you!

CTSenVy > vondon302 09/25/2019 at 12:30

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They value their jobs above all else.  If you are a republican senator that voted for impeachment you are probably going to lose the next primary election for not being a true republican.

For Sweden > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 09/25/2019 at 12:31

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I don’t think there is any evidence the casino magnate turned game show host ever secretly fought for world socialism.

MrSnrub > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 12:32

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Interesting and illuminating. I had only heard the right-wing spin on this, which is that Biden pressured Ukraine to fire the guy to protect his son. The real story makes a bit more sense in the context of the Russia-Ukraine conflict though.

And of course, even if the spin were true, it wouldn’t absolve Trump. Using his foreign policy powers to induce a foreign government to investigate a domestic political rival sounds to me like the exact sort of abuse of power  impeachment was designed to address.

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch 09/25/2019 at 12:33

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Last-minute flights from NYC to Kyiv are cheaper than I expected

HammerheadFistpunch > For Sweden 09/25/2019 at 12:38

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I think my favorite part was the response from Ukraine

um, please don’t come here...we aren’t remotely interested helping either side with this crap.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > For Sweden 09/25/2019 at 12:42

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Hey, you don’t have to be spreading socialism to further the Russian agenda.

vondon302 > CTSenVy 09/25/2019 at 12:42

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Depends on their district but yeah that’s why I have my doubts. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HammerheadFistpunch 09/25/2019 at 12:50

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Hey is it too late for a receipt? 

Tekamul > vondon302 09/25/2019 at 12:57

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Your last sentence is kinda naive . The GOP has already abandoned democracy to save conservatism. What's one more pillar on the fire?

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > CTSenVy 09/25/2019 at 13:00

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But is there such a thing as a “True Republican” anymore? 

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Tekamul 09/25/2019 at 13:03

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I think that statement is kind of unfair. They’ve absolutely abandoned democracy, but whatever the hell it is they’re drunk on absolutely isn’t conservatism anymore.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > nermal 09/25/2019 at 13:07

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Are we in the same universe? How does this prove that Trump > Biden? Using what measures? In terms of media manipulation and balls, maybe…in terms of what one person is accused of doing vs. the other? Uhm…not even close

As for kids – Hunter Biden is a deadbeat and appears Uncle Joe tries to keep his distance from his professional affairs…where as the Trump kids (which ones are we talking about, btw?) are just pure grifters. What qualification do Ivanka and Jared have to serve in any capacity in the administration outside of being related to him?

But yes, Warren is sitting pretty right now. Best outcome for her would be that Joe remains the front runner for as long as possible continuing to take the heat from Trump, and he drops out well after everyone has gotten royally sick of Trump’s attacks and we’re as close as possible to the actual election, limiting how long she is exposed to his madness. 

MrSnrub > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 13:10

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The Republican Party’s primary constituency is concentrated wealth and power, and since maintenance of existing power structures is essentially the point of conservatism, they are still a conservative party in that sense. High-minded principles like “limited government” and “democracy” are not and arguably never were earnestly-held beliefs for them , but rhetorical weapons to be used and discarded as needed.

gettingoldercarguy > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 13:13

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This comes from the universe where Trump's policies help out people or people are bitter at the world and want to watch it burn.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Nick Has an Exocet 09/25/2019 at 13:19

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It looks bad if you’re following the conspiracist narrative. Yes, there is an argument that the Bidens shouldn’t have even been remotely playing in the same ball field at all – however what Joe was advocating for in pressuring for the removal of Shokin was exactly the opposite of what would’ve been preferable for Burisma and Hunter.

The UK government froze a bunch of the company’s money and asked Shokin to provide backup to support their case for that money to be returned to the Ukranian government. Instead he went and rattled on them to Burisma saying he’s seen the UK case against them, that they don’t have anything to worry about, and stonewalled the UK case . i.e. as a prosecutor he was shielding Burisma instead of going after them. And Joe (i.e. the US government, along with many other European states) pressured for him to be removed for ignoring his duties and protecting crooked companies.

A * president * doesn’t directly have the obligation to investigate the son of a political rival – especially not by asking a foreign government to do so, AND by coordinating with his personal attorney (WTF?). His justice department is welcome to do so, of their own volition if they believe a case exists.

Yes, a president does have the obligation to maintain the diplomatic integrity of the nation, which is why he has the obligation to follow the fact pattern noted above for what it is, instead of completely turning it around on its head for his own political gains…thereby tarnishing said diplomatic integrity.

vondon302 > Tekamul 09/25/2019 at 13:19

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Conservatism died when Trump was elected.

Naive? Maybe I  just remember a time when the two party system kinda worked. 

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > MrSnrub 09/25/2019 at 13:22

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Exactly. And it’s mind boggling to think that the president suggesting the Ukrainian government open an investigation in to corruption (instead of his own?) and suggesting that they work with his personal attorney in those efforts…in what universe is that not supremely sketchy?

Tekamul > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 13:37

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You and vondon are both correct, conservatism was the wrong word. Neo-rep ublicanism?

gettingoldercarguy > Nick Has an Exocet 09/25/2019 at 13:49

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It wasn’t him investigating, it was him strong arming a nation, withholding security funds, to get them to “investigate” a political rival’ s family. Asking a foreign nation, not just an individual for help.

What stops a foreign nation from proactively influencing our elections if they know it  can yield favorable treatment?

nermal > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 14:09

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Biden can’t even manage to conspire with one kid while Trump has a 1/2 dozen of them doing questionable deeds all over the place. The family that (successfully) engages in international geopolitical conspiracy and money laundering together, stays together. Duh.

Just as long as nobody lets The Fat One sneak into any pictures.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > nermal 09/25/2019 at 14:18

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I LOLed, just as long as we’re being clear on what we mean by “better”.

functionoverfashion > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 09/25/2019 at 14:51

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It’s stunning, and yet completely expected. The Roy Cohn strategy of 1. Deny, deny, deny, and 2. If someone hits you, hit them back 10 times harder , kind of explains everything. That, and the schoolyard taunt “No I’m not YOU are” is really all you need to know.